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Front end bushes
https://www.bellett.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=2320		 Page 3 of 4
Author:  Asroc66 [ Sat Feb 14, 2015 12:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Front end bushes
Hi,
Great work
Please put me down for a set of upper and lower front
If not too expensive then I will go for a set of rears as well
Cheers
J
Author:  67GT [ Sat Feb 14, 2015 3:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Front end bushes
No Worries guys,
I will get the arms out of my GT as soon as I can, and get the them sent off. as soon as I have costings I will post it up here, but it may be a couple of weeks yet.
Author:  flying [ Sat Feb 14, 2015 10:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Front end bushes
Hi GT

Put me down for top and bottom front

Poss. rears as well

Regards

Flying
Author:  67GT [ Wed Feb 25, 2015 9:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Front end bushes
Hi Guys,
First an update.
I have sent my front and rear control arms off to be measured and quoted for new bushes, but I am not sure how long these things take to work out, so am just in limbo at the moment.

Now for some feedback on an idea that I have in my noggin.
I have noticed that the front camber angle on Bellett's ( particularly standard height sedans ) is quite a bit positive. I for one prefer the handling characteristics of a car with negative camber, but there is often not enough shims to remove to obtain this. Now I don't know if this will work in our case, or if anyone is interested, but for some vehicles there are aftermarket bushes that are offset to fix this issue.
Now my question to you all is; should I be looking into having offset front upper bushes quoted, which if possible to be made for our arms, would probably give an extra ( from standard) half a degree of negative camber ? If it is possible ( and financially viable ), for those that need/want extra negative camber, it would just require the bush be pressed in the right way round. For those that don't need any more negative camber, simply leave shims in behind the upper arm to get the desired camber angle of your choice. Remember it is easy to add shims to make positive camber, but you can only take out as many shims as are there to go toward negative camber.

I look forward to the replies.
Warren.
Author:  Glenn [ Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Front end bushes
67GT wrote:
Hi Guys,
First an update.
I have sent my front and rear control arms off to be measured and quoted for new bushes, but I am not sure how long these things take to work out, so am just in limbo at the moment.

Now for some feedback on an idea that I have in my noggin.
I have noticed that the front camber angle on Bellett's ( particularly standard height sedans ) is quite a bit positive. I for one prefer the handling characteristics of a car with negative camber, but there is often not enough shims to remove to obtain this. Now I don't know if this will work in our case, or if anyone is interested, but for some vehicles there are aftermarket bushes that are offset to fix this issue.
Now my question to you all is; should I be looking into having offset front upper bushes quoted, which if possible to be made for our arms, would probably give an extra ( from standard) half a degree of negative camber ? If it is possible ( and financially viable ), for those that need/want extra negative camber, it would just require the bush be pressed in the right way round. For those that don't need any more negative camber, simply leave shims in behind the upper arm to get the desired camber angle of your choice. Remember it is easy to add shims to make positive camber, but you can only take out as many shims as are there to go toward negative camber.

I look forward to the replies.
Warren.


In the past, some owners have moved the location of the upper ball joint i think. (might be lower) to get Neg Camber.

I'm no suspension expert (or any other kind) but doing it via the bushes might work, but you would need to measure up to see just how far offset they would need to be to get neg camber. Maybe too much? Upper would have to offset inwards and there maybe insufficient rubber left on the inside to work properly due to the forces on the bush.
Author:  67GT [ Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Front end bushes
Yes Glenn,
You are right, there may not be enough "meat" in the bush, which is why I raised it as a possible option. The method of using the bush is tried and tested, as I said it is available as an aftermarket option for many of the "mainstream" cars.
I have asked the question this morning, of both the manufacturer and you guys. So, I will find out if it can be done AND if you guys want it done or not.
Thanks
Warren
Author:  PR91 [ Thu Feb 26, 2015 11:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Front end bushes
I would strongly suggest against offset bushes.... they chop out far too quickly when used in a design like a Bellett. The bump load is forced to the inner side of the bush, so making a bush with less material in that area will promote much harsher ride and an increased rate of wear.
Yes, moving balljoints on the bottom arms has been done a thousand times over. Have done plenty myself for road and race, inc my GT. My race car has a lot of mods in that area....
Moving the top inner pivots is another area they can be modified.... Have tried that one as well.
But....
Do not just move balljoints, pivots, whatever, unless you want a Bellett that will bump steer itself off the road.

Suspension design is a lot more than just 1 or 2 things that line up. The whole thing is designed to work as a unit, especially all the pivot points, and moving just 1 is a big no no as this is what creates bump steer, binding, poor travel, etc.
I've spent years researching, studying, playing and trying things, only to find some work well and some are terrible, so please don't try these things without the info to ensure it will actually work correctly before you touch it.

On the subject of bushes tho, I'm very interested in all fronts and rears, and maybe multiple sets, if possible.
Cheers.
Author:  67GT [ Thu Feb 26, 2015 9:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Front end bushes
Thanks for the feedback Brett. What would you suggest for the front (and rear I guess) of a road going GT ? I would like it to handle well, without being as rough as my old one, as it literally shook itself to death.
I will let everyone know when I have some prices, and I will place the appropriate order.
Author:  67GT [ Wed Mar 18, 2015 4:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Front end bushes
OK Guys,
I have the good and the bad news.
The bushes can be made, and would be in a purple urethane type product. That's the good news.

Now for the bad news.
Based on the replies I received a few weeks ago, I asked them for a quote based on seven complete sets, front and rear. Now they have quoted it as a per car, so not sure of individual arms, but they are not cheap.
Based on seven sets, we are looking at $865 per car. They are treating it as a one off order, and will not keep a mould.

Now just for the record, I am not doing this for any profit, and if no one else goes ahead, I still will order my set. The original quote for one set only was a little over $1200, but Hey, I need them. Obviously if we did order more the cost would come down a little further, but still not cheap.

Please let me know who would like to proceed ( if anyone ), and I can make the arrangements.
Thanks
Warren
02 4393 2833 (BH)
bjlakehaven@tmarts.com.au
Author:  Glenn [ Wed Mar 18, 2015 4:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Front end bushes
67GT wrote:
OK Guys,
I have the good and the bad news.
The bushes can be made, and would be in a purple urethane type product. That's the good news.

Now for the bad news.
Based on the replies I received a few weeks ago, I asked them for a quote based on seven complete sets, front and rear. Now they have quoted it as a per car, so not sure of individual arms, but they are not cheap.
Based on seven sets, we are looking at $865 per car. They are treating it as a one off order, and will not keep a mould.

Please let me know who would like to proceed ( if anyone ), and I can make the arrangements.
Thanks
Warren
02 4393 2833 (BH)
bjlakehaven@tmarts.com.au


sorry, I am out. I just wanted upper fronts anyway.

glenn
Author:  Asroc66 [ Wed Mar 18, 2015 5:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Front end bushes
Thanks for all your efforts but I am Out also
I don't need them that badly
Cheers
J
Author:  PR95 [ Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Front end bushes
Has anybody tried Rotary Spares at Lawnton.... He claims that he can get anything made?
Author:  degruch [ Wed Mar 18, 2015 10:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Front end bushes
Ouch! I'd love to help you keep the price down and order a set, but the 7 set price seems a tad high...popular cars are typically $200-300 a set. :cry:
Author:  67GT [ Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Front end bushes
Duane, I agree it does seem a bit high, certainly more than I was expecting.
However it has been pointed out to me that $865 divided by 12 = $72 per bush, which does bring it inline with your expected $2-300 for a normal car ( which would be for a set of 4 usually ).
Still I understand it is a lot of money.

As for Rotary spares, can someone who knows them follow that lead.

If there is no luck there then I will have to order the set for my car that I need. Big dent in the budget, but what do you do ?

warren
Author:  Glenn [ Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Front end bushes
67GT wrote:
Duane, I agree it does seem a bit high, certainly more than I was expecting.
However it has been pointed out to me that $865 divided by 12 = $72 per bush, which does bring it inline with your expected $2-300 for a normal car ( which would be for a set of 4 usually ).
Still I understand it is a lot of money.

As for Rotary spares, can someone who knows them follow that lead.

If there is no luck there then I will have to order the set for my car that I need. Big dent in the budget, but what do you do ?

warren


are all of your bushes that bad? In my experience its mostly front bushes that cause issues and even then relatively rare.
Author:  67GT [ Wed Mar 18, 2015 10:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Front end bushes
Glenn, I could probably get away with just doing fronts ( they are completely shagged ), but I have gone this far I might as well go all out.
Do it right, do it once.
Regards
Warren
Author:  Glenn [ Wed Mar 18, 2015 10:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Front end bushes
67GT wrote:
Glenn, I could probably get away with just doing fronts ( they are completely shagged ), but I have gone this far I might as well go all out.
Do it right, do it once.
Regards
Warren

fair enough.
Author:  BULLITT [ Wed Mar 18, 2015 11:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Front end bushes
rotary spares are just up the road for stickman ..perhaps he could drop one in or I can I am up near there every week if someone can send me a bush ??? ...not a bush of marijuana Ha ha cheers davo
Author:  degruch [ Thu Mar 19, 2015 2:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Front end bushes
I 'think' my front bushes may be okay, pretty sure the rear ones are non-existent...maybe I could split a set with someone?

I know, I pitch this every few months, but I've reverse engineered dozens of parts, if I could make a set of drawings for the bushes, then throw them up on the forum. That way anyone could access the drawings to reproduce the parts, or even download CAD files to make moulds from. Any one of us could pick a supplier and get a quick quote without the endless frigging around.
Author:  67GT [ Thu Mar 19, 2015 4:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Front end bushes
At the moment they have a full set of (left hand side ) of arms out of my GT. The first set they make will be flowed into the arms and set. Then they will take the required measurements to produce any others we order ( if we do ). It is obviously not something they plan to hang onto though as they did say it was being treated as a one off order, and they were not going to keep a mould.
As for you wanting rears only Duane, the initial replies I received had some looking for front only and some for rear only. So when I tallied it up we roughly had seven sets + depending on some people indicating multiple sets. However given the price that has come back, it looks like I am on my own at this stage, but still waiting on a couple of people to reply that were interested.
Warren
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